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	<title>Buy Mega Hoodia Without Prescription &raquo; We Always Have The Cheapest Offers In Our Online-Drugstore</title>
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	<link>http://www.agileadvice.com/2007/07/19/linkstoagileinfo/agile-is-not-communism/</link>
	<description>All Things Agile: Scrum, OpenAgile, XP &#38; Lean</description>
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		<title>Buy Mega Hoodia Without Prescription &raquo; We Always Have The Cheapest Offers In Our Online-Drugstore</title>
		<link>http://www.agileadvice.com/2007/07/19/linkstoagileinfo/agile-is-not-communism/comment-page-1/#comment-4112</link>
		<dc:creator>galanteh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Mar 2010 22:05:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.agileadvice.com/2007/07/19/uncategorized/agile-is-not-communism/#comment-4112</guid>
		<description>I could be communism because, you can have a junior programmer working back to back with a senior one, and they&#039;re the same for SCRUM, for example. But, the payroll is so much different.
That&#039;s the &quot;feeling&quot; about communism. Another example, could be when someone has been working for years in a project, and a new developer is entering, and he has the same rights. This could be unconfortable for people who has been working for a lot of time, if the new one, starts talking, giving opinions or critics and doing things that are reserved for the old-ones, who had already demostrated their abilities.
Maybe, it could be avoided with a rank. That rank, could led to have a distinction, like they were stocks of a company.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I could be communism because, you can have a junior programmer working back to back with a senior one, and they&#8217;re the same for SCRUM, for example. But, the payroll is so much different.<br />
That&#8217;s the &#8220;feeling&#8221; about communism. Another example, could be when someone has been working for years in a project, and a new developer is entering, and he has the same rights. This could be unconfortable for people who has been working for a lot of time, if the new one, starts talking, giving opinions or critics and doing things that are reserved for the old-ones, who had already demostrated their abilities.<br />
Maybe, it could be avoided with a rank. That rank, could led to have a distinction, like they were stocks of a company.</p>
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		<title>Buy Mega Hoodia Without Prescription &raquo; We Always Have The Cheapest Offers In Our Online-Drugstore</title>
		<link>http://www.agileadvice.com/2007/07/19/linkstoagileinfo/agile-is-not-communism/comment-page-1/#comment-4105</link>
		<dc:creator>stevevai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Mar 2010 13:46:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.agileadvice.com/2007/07/19/uncategorized/agile-is-not-communism/#comment-4105</guid>
		<description>Please note that, by this logic, a party is impossible.

At a party, we bring food or drink according to our ability, and eat and drink according to our needs... JUST LIKE COMMUNISM.

The activities of the party are determined collectively by the partygoers... JUST LIKE COMMUNISM.

To prevent parties from failing... JUST LIKE COMMUNISM, we must reorganize them along more capitalistic lines.  I recommend that, from now on, all parties should forgo free food and drink in favor of vending machines and several competing cash bars.  Only the highest bidders will have the right to offer people fun things to do.  Partygoers who fail to meet the two-drink minimum will be deemed loiterers, troublemakers, and impediments to commerce, and will be thrown out immediately by a private security service.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please note that, by this logic, a party is impossible.</p>
<p>At a party, we bring food or drink according to our ability, and eat and drink according to our needs&#8230; JUST LIKE COMMUNISM.</p>
<p>The activities of the party are determined collectively by the partygoers&#8230; JUST LIKE COMMUNISM.</p>
<p>To prevent parties from failing&#8230; JUST LIKE COMMUNISM, we must reorganize them along more capitalistic lines.  I recommend that, from now on, all parties should forgo free food and drink in favor of vending machines and several competing cash bars.  Only the highest bidders will have the right to offer people fun things to do.  Partygoers who fail to meet the two-drink minimum will be deemed loiterers, troublemakers, and impediments to commerce, and will be thrown out immediately by a private security service.</p>
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		<title>Buy Mega Hoodia Without Prescription &raquo; We Always Have The Cheapest Offers In Our Online-Drugstore</title>
		<link>http://www.agileadvice.com/2007/07/19/linkstoagileinfo/agile-is-not-communism/comment-page-1/#comment-4063</link>
		<dc:creator>Bolla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 22:23:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.agileadvice.com/2007/07/19/uncategorized/agile-is-not-communism/#comment-4063</guid>
		<description>I do agree with Floryan from Poland. I think it is very important to distinguish between ideal marxism and communism practiced in Eastern Europe and elsewhere. I am a son of a previous leader of the communist party in my country, been part marxist youth movements, hold a mastersdegree from a leading elite business school and now consult large corporations in lean transformations.
I believe the key here is the definition of communism and marxism which is difficult to do because this is filled with lots of stereotypes and political gaming. (remember Marx himself said he was no communist, and rejected the whole idea of revolutions in Russia)
The key question here in my view here is ownership of capital (means of production). Usually in a communist state that is the state (and without democracy) To many that the state owns all means of production is a perversion, and they call it state capitalism. Some do agree in the state as the owner but see the lack of democracy as the perversion. In Marx terms it was the workers that should be the owners and the state is not in the equation. (the central planning is not in there at all)
In your link to the &quot;means of production&quot;, it discusses this briefly at the end. Here is a the quote:
 &quot;Thus, in capitalism, the means of production are controlled by the bourgeoisie, (the &quot;capitalists&quot; - the owners of capital). In the pure ideal of socialism, such as that &quot;communism&quot; was/is supposed to be, the MoP are controlled by the workers production collectives directly. In fact this situation has only been historically realized temporarily such as in the Israeli kibbutz or the early Soviets before the entrenchment of the communist party as a &quot;New Class&quot;, or in isolated or preliminary form such as in the final phase of the Second Spanish Republic, or various experimental utopian communities.&quot;

In the end of the quote the author quckly brushes of the whole idea about worker ownership as something that belongs in utopian communities. Well, then I work in one of those utopian communities. In our consultancy company we all own a part of the company, like many thousands of others in this field of work. That goes for many in the software industry as well. There are also others very successful companies like mondragon of Spain and Semco in Brazil. Many of them are high performing companies. In fact, when I facilitated a leadership workshop for a large international metals comapny, the CEO said that he wanted his workers to behave and think like they owned the comapny. His assumptions was that as owners they would make better decision and perform better. (I think that when the other brushes it off like he or she does, reflects either bias or lack of reflection/ knowledge.)
I do know if a workers ownership principles would work on a national or mulitnational scale. I know however, that it works in many companies. If that is communism, really depends on how you define it. That is why I think you need to carefully define communism/ marxism (without bias) before you can answer your questions.
Your question about why communism failed, is matter of controversy, and to most people, it could not ever succeed. Here is what I believe:
communism failed because it removed all sense of responsibility. When the state owns it, nobody does and you get something called &quot;the tragedy of the commons&quot; It became a dehumanising ideology. In addition to becoming a state owned system, they also got stuck with central planning. Central planning was the fad of the early 20th century all over Europe and that became a central tenet of the Soviet system. Many believed central planning to be more efficient and we see the reminiscient of that in many large mulitnational companies of today(Many of them even operate with 5 year plans.) and are probably equally bureaucratic. Central planning, state (no) ownership, complete corruption and dictatorship sounds like a complete disaster to me. If these are the root causes, I am not sure. Some people just argue that a) marxism is an evil ideology or b) marxism is utopian because people are inherently selfish. (I leave this for a later discussion while currently reading a book about the evolution of the moral mind)
How we can make sure that this does not happen to the agile community?
First of all, the means of production in software development lays in the the creative ability of the people. It will be difficult to centralise the ownership of the minds. However, it could happen by some strange patent or copyright laws. (example: we have taught you how to program in this environment and you are not allowed to practice those skills outside the company - or something similar)
Second, we need to make sure that a system do not evolve into a dictatorship and that there are true feedback mechanisms in place to correct that. (If a product manager stops listening to the programmers or the customers)
Thirdly, I am not sure if agile constitute a system of central planning. It is certainly much more flexible. However, the product manager decides what to do, which in a sense could constitute central planning. However, in our society, the product has to stand the test of the market, and if they do not make the right decisions they will be out of a job. And if they do not trust the programmers, they will deliver poorly and inefficient. Hopefully, the company will see this and take action. However, in both cases you rely on well functioning feedback mechanisms.
In all, agile needs to  make sure that it does not evolve into the perverted form of marxism (which I do not think it will) If agile is the ideal form of marxism depends on the definition of both terms. However, at any rate that would be a hard sell, and would probably alienate a lot of people to agile.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do agree with Floryan from Poland. I think it is very important to distinguish between ideal marxism and communism practiced in Eastern Europe and elsewhere. I am a son of a previous leader of the communist party in my country, been part marxist youth movements, hold a mastersdegree from a leading elite business school and now consult large corporations in lean transformations.<br />
I believe the key here is the definition of communism and marxism which is difficult to do because this is filled with lots of stereotypes and political gaming. (remember Marx himself said he was no communist, and rejected the whole idea of revolutions in Russia)<br />
The key question here in my view here is ownership of capital (means of production). Usually in a communist state that is the state (and without democracy) To many that the state owns all means of production is a perversion, and they call it state capitalism. Some do agree in the state as the owner but see the lack of democracy as the perversion. In Marx terms it was the workers that should be the owners and the state is not in the equation. (the central planning is not in there at all)<br />
In your link to the &#8220;means of production&#8221;, it discusses this briefly at the end. Here is a the quote:<br />
 &#8220;Thus, in capitalism, the means of production are controlled by the bourgeoisie, (the &#8220;capitalists&#8221; &#8211; the owners of capital). In the pure ideal of socialism, such as that &#8220;communism&#8221; was/is supposed to be, the MoP are controlled by the workers production collectives directly. In fact this situation has only been historically realized temporarily such as in the Israeli kibbutz or the early Soviets before the entrenchment of the communist party as a &#8220;New Class&#8221;, or in isolated or preliminary form such as in the final phase of the Second Spanish Republic, or various experimental utopian communities.&#8221;</p>
<p>In the end of the quote the author quckly brushes of the whole idea about worker ownership as something that belongs in utopian communities. Well, then I work in one of those utopian communities. In our consultancy company we all own a part of the company, like many thousands of others in this field of work. That goes for many in the software industry as well. There are also others very successful companies like mondragon of Spain and Semco in Brazil. Many of them are high performing companies. In fact, when I facilitated a leadership workshop for a large international metals comapny, the CEO said that he wanted his workers to behave and think like they owned the comapny. His assumptions was that as owners they would make better decision and perform better. (I think that when the other brushes it off like he or she does, reflects either bias or lack of reflection/ knowledge.)<br />
I do know if a workers ownership principles would work on a national or mulitnational scale. I know however, that it works in many companies. If that is communism, really depends on how you define it. That is why I think you need to carefully define communism/ marxism (without bias) before you can answer your questions.<br />
Your question about why communism failed, is matter of controversy, and to most people, it could not ever succeed. Here is what I believe:<br />
communism failed because it removed all sense of responsibility. When the state owns it, nobody does and you get something called &#8220;the tragedy of the commons&#8221; It became a dehumanising ideology. In addition to becoming a state owned system, they also got stuck with central planning. Central planning was the fad of the early 20th century all over Europe and that became a central tenet of the Soviet system. Many believed central planning to be more efficient and we see the reminiscient of that in many large mulitnational companies of today(Many of them even operate with 5 year plans.) and are probably equally bureaucratic. Central planning, state (no) ownership, complete corruption and dictatorship sounds like a complete disaster to me. If these are the root causes, I am not sure. Some people just argue that a) marxism is an evil ideology or b) marxism is utopian because people are inherently selfish. (I leave this for a later discussion while currently reading a book about the evolution of the moral mind)<br />
How we can make sure that this does not happen to the agile community?<br />
First of all, the means of production in software development lays in the the creative ability of the people. It will be difficult to centralise the ownership of the minds. However, it could happen by some strange patent or copyright laws. (example: we have taught you how to program in this environment and you are not allowed to practice those skills outside the company &#8211; or something similar)<br />
Second, we need to make sure that a system do not evolve into a dictatorship and that there are true feedback mechanisms in place to correct that. (If a product manager stops listening to the programmers or the customers)<br />
Thirdly, I am not sure if agile constitute a system of central planning. It is certainly much more flexible. However, the product manager decides what to do, which in a sense could constitute central planning. However, in our society, the product has to stand the test of the market, and if they do not make the right decisions they will be out of a job. And if they do not trust the programmers, they will deliver poorly and inefficient. Hopefully, the company will see this and take action. However, in both cases you rely on well functioning feedback mechanisms.<br />
In all, agile needs to  make sure that it does not evolve into the perverted form of marxism (which I do not think it will) If agile is the ideal form of marxism depends on the definition of both terms. However, at any rate that would be a hard sell, and would probably alienate a lot of people to agile.</p>
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		<title>Buy Mega Hoodia Without Prescription &raquo; We Always Have The Cheapest Offers In Our Online-Drugstore</title>
		<link>http://www.agileadvice.com/2007/07/19/linkstoagileinfo/agile-is-not-communism/comment-page-1/#comment-3966</link>
		<dc:creator>mfloryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Feb 2010 21:28:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.agileadvice.com/2007/07/19/uncategorized/agile-is-not-communism/#comment-3966</guid>
		<description>I come from Poland and thus have had first hand experience of communism, I also work in an Agile environment now. I may sound a little bit cynical here, but I don&#039;t think there is any way in which you can even attempt to compare agile and communism - that is - the true and real communism as people experienced it behind the Iron Curtain not the idealistic concept. Communism undignified people, undermined trust and had no respect for individual. Agile is based on trust, value the individual, teamwork and commitment.
I can however see how people can think of agile to be communism like - but they mistake collective ownership (i.e. no-one owns it) to collaborative ownership (i.e. we all have responsibility).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I come from Poland and thus have had first hand experience of communism, I also work in an Agile environment now. I may sound a little bit cynical here, but I don&#8217;t think there is any way in which you can even attempt to compare agile and communism &#8211; that is &#8211; the true and real communism as people experienced it behind the Iron Curtain not the idealistic concept. Communism undignified people, undermined trust and had no respect for individual. Agile is based on trust, value the individual, teamwork and commitment.<br />
I can however see how people can think of agile to be communism like &#8211; but they mistake collective ownership (i.e. no-one owns it) to collaborative ownership (i.e. we all have responsibility).</p>
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		<title>Buy Mega Hoodia Without Prescription &raquo; We Always Have The Cheapest Offers In Our Online-Drugstore</title>
		<link>http://www.agileadvice.com/2007/07/19/linkstoagileinfo/agile-is-not-communism/comment-page-1/#comment-3948</link>
		<dc:creator>Gino Marckx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:34:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.agileadvice.com/2007/07/19/uncategorized/agile-is-not-communism/#comment-3948</guid>
		<description>Even if you would consider that Communism and Agile share similar values, failure of one doesn&#039;t necessarily imply failure of the other...
I would actually start with debating that communism as a philosophy hasn&#039;t failed, but large scale implementations have. The failures I immediately think of - not through experience though - suffered from continuously decreasing quality as a result of competitive capitalist behaviour (not sharing fundamental communist values). Similarly, agile adoption will not likely be successful for teams not sharing fundamental agile values, such as delivering high quality products and services.
So does that imply that large scale agile adoption cannot be successful? I don&#039;t think so. Citizenship leaves you with few choices on which political system to live in. Companies however might provide you with a few options, maybe even mixing both agile and other approaches. So instead of forcing a single process onto all employees, individual &#039;preferences&#039; can be taken into account in the team, department, even in the company. After all... we value people and interactions over processes and tools...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even if you would consider that Communism and Agile share similar values, failure of one doesn&#8217;t necessarily imply failure of the other&#8230;<br />
I would actually start with debating that communism as a philosophy hasn&#8217;t failed, but large scale implementations have. The failures I immediately think of &#8211; not through experience though &#8211; suffered from continuously decreasing quality as a result of competitive capitalist behaviour (not sharing fundamental communist values). Similarly, agile adoption will not likely be successful for teams not sharing fundamental agile values, such as delivering high quality products and services.<br />
So does that imply that large scale agile adoption cannot be successful? I don&#8217;t think so. Citizenship leaves you with few choices on which political system to live in. Companies however might provide you with a few options, maybe even mixing both agile and other approaches. So instead of forcing a single process onto all employees, individual &#8216;preferences&#8217; can be taken into account in the team, department, even in the company. After all&#8230; we value people and interactions over processes and tools&#8230;</p>
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